recently we played with OpenAIs ChatGPT and wanted to test its capabilities.
Who dont know what it is: ChatGPT is a large language model developed by OpenAI that is trained to generate human-like text. It can be used for various natural language processing tasks such as text generation, language translation, and question answering. It delivers good quality and well formulated (in terms of language pattern) answers and sometimes gets the facts wrong. Chatting with ChatGPT is interesting, even for a professional, especially if you can sort out the wrongs facts.



Although it failed our turing-test, the answers in regard of DDoS are interesting and deliver a nice FAQ for understanding DDoS-Threats and Problems on a High-Level. Especially the part where we chat with the AI about AI-driven defense and attackpatterns in the end of the chat are very interesting

If you see a "...", here we sorted out incorrect answers.

what problems do you see with current ddos-protection and why it fails 50% of the time?

💡
There are several problems with current DDoS protection methods that can cause them to fail in some cases:1. Lack of scalability: Many DDoS protection solutions are not designed to handle large-scale attacks, which can cause them to fail when faced with a high volume of traffic.2. Difficulty in distinguishing between legitimate and malicious traffic: DDoS attacks often use a large number of compromised devices or botnets to generate traffic, which can make it difficult to distinguish between legitimate and malicious traffic.3. Lack of real-time visibility: DDoS protection solutions that rely on historical data to identify patterns of malicious traffic may not be able to detect and respond to attacks in real-time.4. Difficulty in identifying new attack vectors: DDoS attacks are constantly evolving, and new attack vectors are being developed all the time. This makes it difficult for DDoS protection solutions to keep up and stay effective against new types of attacks.5. Limited geographic coverage: DDoS attacks can originate from anywhere in the world, and DDoS protection solutions that are limited to a specific geographic region may not be able to effectively protect against attacks that originate elsewhere.6. Limited bandwidth: some DDoS protection solutions may not have the bandwidth to handle large scale DDoS attacks.7. Lack of collaboration: DDoS attacks often require collaboration between multiple organizations, such as internet service providers (ISPs) and cloud providers, to effectively mitigate. However, many DDoS protection solutions are not designed to facilitate this kind of collaboration.8. False positives: DDoS protection systems may sometimes block legitimate traffic by mistake, which can impact the availability of the service.All these factors can contribute to DDoS protection solutions failing to fully protect against DDoS attacks. It's important to note that there is no single solution that can provide 100% protection against DDoS attacks and it's essential to implement multiple layers of security to protect against DDoS attacks.
💡
Remarks by the authors: The main reason we see for failing are configuration-issues, especially in hybrid setups, where a final finetuning and evaluation is missing.

what ddos-attack-methods do you know that hasnt been covered much by media or techblogs?

💡
There are several advanced and sophisticated DDoS attack methods that have not been widely covered by media or tech blogs, some of these methods include:1. Amplification attacks: These attacks leverage the use of amplification devices such as Network Time Protocol (NTP) servers, Simple Service Discovery Protocol (SSDP) servers, and Domain Name System (DNS) servers to generate large amounts of traffic.2. Application-layer attacks: These attacks target specific vulnerabilities in web applications or web services, rather than targeting the network infrastructure. They can be more difficult to detect and mitigate than traditional network-layer DDoS attacks.3. Layer 7 DDoS attacks: These attacks are also known as HTTP flood attacks, and they focus on overwhelming web servers by generating a large number of HTTP requests.4. Connectionless DDoS attacks: These attacks are different from traditional DDoS attacks, which rely on maintaining a continuous connection to the targeted server. Connectionless DDoS attacks send a high volume of UDP or ICMP packets to the target, which can cause the target to crash or become unavailable.5. Advanced Persistent DDoS (APT-DDoS): These attacks are targeted, prolonged and are designed to evade detection, They use a variety of techniques, such as distributed botnets, reflection/amplification, and application-layer attacks.6. DNS and BGP hijacking: This type of attacks leverages the trust relationship between DNS and BGP to redirect traffic to a malicious site or IP address.7. IoT Botnet attacks: These attacks use a large number of Internet of Things (IoT) devices that have been compromised to launch DDoS attacks.8. Ransom DDoS: This type of attack is similar to a Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) attack, but the attacker demands a ransom payment to stop the attack.It's important to note that DDoS attacks are constantly evolving, and new methods are being developed all the time. To protect against these advanced and sophisticated DDoS attacks, organizations need to adopt a multi-layered defense strategy that includes network and application-layer DDoS protection, as well as monitoring and incident response capabilities.
💡
Remarks by the Authors: These attacks are all well known and easy to mitigate

these attacks are all well known and analyzed. i am looking for the needle in the haystack, methods that have not been widely published or talked about such as TCP-handshakes

💡
... the answer was total nonsense, just repeating things ChatGPT read and tried to put in a context like Smurf, Fraggle, Amplification, Flood etc

what ddos-attack-methods do you know that uses carpetbombing or randomization?

💡
Carpet bombing and randomization are not specific DDoS attack methods, but rather strategies that can be used in conjunction with other DDoS attack methods.Carpet bombing refers to a DDoS attack strategy where a large number of packets are sent to a wide range of IP addresses within a target network, rather than targeting a specific IP address. This type of attack can be effective in overwhelming the target network's resources, making it difficult to identify and mitigate the attack.Randomization refers to a DDoS attack strategy where the attack traffic is randomized to evade detection and mitigation efforts. For example, an attacker may use a large number of different IP addresses or use different types of attack traffic to make it more difficult to identify and block the attack....

why is carpetbombing such a problem for the defense?

💡
Carpet bombing is a problem for the defense because it makes it difficult to identify and mitigate the attack. In a carpet bombing attack, a large number of packets are sent to a wide range of IP addresses within a target network, rather than targeting a specific IP address. This makes it difficult to identify the source of the attack, and also creates a large number of potential attack vectors to defend against. Additionally, the wide range of IP addresses being targeted can make it difficult to block the attack traffic using traditional IP-based blocking methods.Another issue with carpet bombing is that it can consume a large amount of resources on the target network, making it difficult to continue providing normal services. This can be due to the large number of packets being sent to the network, or to the fact that the network is wasting resources trying to process the invalid packets.Furthermore, the randomization technique used in a carpet bombing attack can make it more difficult to identify patterns in the attack traffic, making it more challenging to detect and block the attack. This makes it harder for the defense to effectively mitigate the attack and restore normal service.In summary, carpet bombing is a problem for the defense because it makes it difficult to identify and mitigate the attack, consumes a large amount of resources, and makes it more challenging to detect and block the attack due to the randomization technique used.

why are ddos-groups using OSINT-techniques are very successfull nowadays?

💡
DDOS groups are using OSINT (Open-source Intelligence) techniques to gather information about their targets, which allows them to launch more effective and sophisticated attacks. OSINT techniques include using publicly available information to gather information about a target, such as their IP addresses, network infrastructure, and business operations.By using OSINT techniques, DDOS groups are able to:1. Identify vulnerable systems and infrastructure: OSINT techniques allow DDOS groups to identify systems and infrastructure that are vulnerable to attack. This can include identifying unpatched systems, misconfigured networks, and other security weaknesses that can be exploited.2. Gather information about target networks: OSINT techniques allow DDOS groups to gather information about target networks, such as IP address ranges, network topology, and internet service providers. This information can be used to launch targeted attacks against specific systems or infrastructure.3. Identify potential amplification vectors: OSINT techniques can be used to identify vulnerable systems and services that can be used to amplify the impact of an attack. For example, finding a vulnerable NTP server that can be used to amplify an NTP amplification attack.4. ...5. Gather information about target's partners and customers: OSINT techniques can also be used to gather information about a target's partners and customers. This information can be used to launch attacks against these organizations, or to use them as a stepping stone to launch attacks against the target organization.By using OSINT techniques, DDOS groups are able to gather a significant amount of information about their targets, which allows them to launch more effective and sophisticated attacks. This is one of the reasons why DDOS groups are currently very successful in their attacks.

can you build a ddos-threatmodel for an online-bank?

💡
A DDoS threat model for an online bank would involve identifying and analyzing potential attack vectors, such as network and application layer attacks, as well as understanding the potential impact and likelihood of each type of attack- Network layer attacks, such as SYN floods and UDP floods, target the bank's infrastructure and can cause a denial of service by overwhelming network resources.- Application layer attacks, such as HTTP floods, target the bank's applications and can cause a denial of service by overwhelming application resources.In order to build a threat model, it would be important to consider the bank's current security controls and infrastructure, as well as any known vulnerabilities or threats that the bank may be facing. Additionally, it would be important to consider the types of information and systems that the bank has in place to protect customer data and financial transactions.Once identified the potential attack vectors, possible mitigations such as DDoS protection services, traffic shaping, rate limiting, and load balancing can be applied.It would also be important to have incident response plan in place and to regularly test and update it.Please note that this is a high level overview of the process and for a real-world scenario a much more detailed and tailored analysis would be needed, involving experts in IT security, infrastructure and incident response.

lets focus on the application-layer, namely the online-banking part with login und userinteraction. the bank has a WAF in place. what can you suggest as threatmodel? which adversaries are to expect?

💡
A threat model for an online bank's application layer would include identifying potential adversaries and their motives, as well as the bank's assets and vulnerabilities. Adversaries to expect include financially motivated attackers, hacktivists, and nation-state actors....Another potential attack vector to consider is Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) attacks, which can overload the bank's servers and disrupt service availability. To protect against DDoS attacks, the bank can use DDoS mitigation services, such as traffic filtering, traffic shaping, and traffic redirection.Overall, a comprehensive threat model for an online bank's application layer should include identifying potential adversaries, assets, and vulnerabilities, as well as implementing security controls to mitigate identified risks.


lets stay with the ddos. is it important for the defense, to make regular ddos-tests aka redteaming?

💡
Yes, regular DDoS testing, also known as red teaming, is important for the defense. By simulating DDoS attacks on the network and systems, organizations can identify vulnerabilities and weaknesses in their defenses, and take steps to address them before real attacks occur. This can include testing the effectiveness of DDoS mitigation solutions, such as firewalls and scrubbing centers, as well as evaluating the readiness and response of incident response teams.Additionally, regular testing can help organizations stay up-to-date with the latest DDoS attack techniques and strategies used by adversaries, allowing them to better prepare and defend against such attacks in the future.


lets focus on ddos against the application-layer, namely the online-banking part with login und userinteraction. the bank has a WAF in place. what can you suggest as threatmodel? which adversaries are to expect?

💡
A Threatmodel for a DDOS attack against an online banking application should consider the following adversaries:1. Script kiddies: amateurs who use pre-made tools to launch attacks2. Hacktivists: individuals or groups who launch attacks for political or social motives3. Competitors: other companies who may launch attacks to disrupt the targeted company's operations4. State-sponsored actors: governments or government-affiliated groups who may launch attacks for espionage or sabotage purposesIt is important for the defense to regularly test their security controls, including conducting regular DDOS simulations or penetration testing, to identify vulnerabilities and improve their ability to detect and respond to real-world attacks. Additionally, it is important to have incident response plans in place and to regularly train staff on how to respond to DDOS attacks.

do you know what the terms blueteam and redteam in context of it-security means?

💡
A "blue team" is a group of IT security professionals that is responsible for protecting an organization's networks and systems from cyber threats. Blue teams typically focus on identifying and mitigating vulnerabilities, monitoring network activity, and responding to security incidents. They also play an important role in incident response and disaster recovery.A "red team" is a group of IT security professionals that simulates the tactics, techniques, and procedures of real-world attackers in order to test an organization's defenses. Red teams typically focus on identifying and exploiting vulnerabilities in an organization's networks and systems, and they often use the same tools and methods as real attackers. The goal of a red team is to help the organization identify and address security weaknesses before they can be exploited by a real attacker.Both blue and red teams are essential for an organization to be secure. The blue team is responsible for protecting the organization, while the red team is responsible for testing and identifying vulnerabilities. Together, they provide a comprehensive approach to security that helps organizations identify and address potential threats before they can be exploited.

i am as a blueteamer must understand how redteamer or real world attacker thinks and operate. please tell me how AI can help attacker to execute attacks against it-systems

💡
... the anwsers were useless in the sort of "an AI can generate new attack patterns" etc

i know of the use of ML to find anomalies in systems. are there any other specific areas where AI/ML can be used to help the blue team in defending it-systems?

💡
Yes, there are several specific areas where AI and machine learning (ML) can be used to help the blue team in defending IT systems:1. Intrusion detection and prevention: AI and ML algorithms can be used to analyze network traffic in real-time and to detect patterns of activity that may indicate an attack.2. Malware detection: AI and ML algorithms can be used to analyze files and other data to identify malicious software and to prevent it from executing on a system.3. Vulnerability management: AI and ML algorithms can be used to analyze systems and applications to identify vulnerabilities and to prioritize patches and updates.4. Security automation: AI and ML algorithms can be used to automate repetitive security tasks such as incident response, log analysis, and threat intelligence.5. Advanced threat hunting: AI and ML algorithms can be used to identify patterns of activity that may indicate an advanced persistent threat, and to respond quickly to mitigate the threat.6. User and entity behavior analytics: AI and ML algorithms can be used to analyze the behavior of users and devices on the network to detect and prevent malicious activity.7. Phishing and social engineering: AI and ML algorithms can be used to analyze email, social media, and other data to identify potential phishing and social engineering attacks.8. Identity and access management: AI and ML algorithms can be used to identify and mitigate risk associated with privileged access and to identify and prevent credential-based attacks.AI and ML are powerful tools that can help blue teams to more effectively detect, respond to, and prevent cyber attacks. These technologies can be used to automate and improve many of the traditional security tasks, and also to help organizations detect and respond to new and emerging threats.

when i as an attacker know that AI is used in the defense, how would you prevent me to inject methods and events with low level hat the AI just learns and then accepts as good events, similar to cache poisoning-attacks?

💡
As an attacker, if you know that AI is used in the defense, one way to potentially bypass it would be to try to "poison" the AI model by injecting malicious data or events that the AI will learn as normal or acceptable. This is similar to cache poisoning attacks, where an attacker injects malicious data into a cache in order to change the behavior of a system.To prevent such attacks, the following steps can be taken:1. Data Validation: Ensure that input data is validated and sanitized before it is fed into the AI model. This can help to prevent malicious data from being included in the training set and potentially poisoning the model.2. Data segregation: Train the AI model on a separate dataset and use a different dataset to test the performance of the model, which can help to prevent the AI from learning malicious data.3. Model isolation: Keep the AI model isolated from the production environment and ensure that it doesn't have access to sensitive data.4. Regular monitoring and retraining: Regularly monitor the AI model's performance and retrain it as necessary.5. Anomaly detection: Use anomaly detection algorithms to detect any unusual behavior that may indicate that the AI model has been poisoned.6. Explainability: Implement techniques that provide an understanding of the decision-making process of the AI model, which can help to detect any unexpected behavior.7. Human oversight: Incorporate human oversight into the decision-making process of the AI, in order to ensure that any malicious data or events are identified and prevented before they can cause harm.It's important to note that no single solution can provide 100% protection against cache poisoning attacks, it's essential to implement multiple layers of security to protect the AI model and the systems it is protecting.

so when input data cant be validated but the AI must be trained constanlty to onto new and always changing datasets, lets say interaction of users with the internet or malware, it is not possible to protect the AI-model from poisoning?

💡
When input data cannot be validated and the AI must be trained constantly on new and constantly changing datasets, such as interactions of users with the internet or malware, it can be challenging to protect the AI model from poisoning. However, it is still possible to take steps to minimize the risk of poisoning.One approach would be to use techniques such as "adversarial training" where the AI model is trained on a dataset that includes both normal and malicious data, in order to make it more robust to malicious inputs. Additionally, using techniques such as "ensemble learning" where multiple models are trained and their predictions are combined can also make it more robust to poisoning, as it will be less likely for all the models to be poisoned.Another approach would be to use techniques such as "active learning" where the AI model is able to identify and flag uncertain or suspicious data for further review by a human. This can help to identify and prevent any malicious data from being included in the training set.Another step can be taken is to use techniques such as "transfer learning" which allows the AI model to leverage knowledge from previously learned tasks to improve its performance on new tasks. This can help to reduce the amount of data required to train the model and also make it more robust to poisoning.It's important to note that even with these techniques, it's still possible for the AI model to be poisoned, but it will be less likely to happen and it will be easier to detect and prevent. It's also essential to have regular monitoring and retraining of the AI model, as well as incorporating human oversight in the decision-making process, in order to detect any unexpected behavior.